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Author Topic: Shootout Sonos, Magna-Sonos(+Ultimo), G-Sonos en Bluesound Node  (Read 233974 times)

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Offline holco

Re: Shootout Sonos, Magna-Sonos(+Ultimo), G-Sonos en Bluesound Node
« Reply #900 on: November 22, 2016, 08:15:13 »
Binnenkort krijg ik de Mano Streamer op demo, ben erg benieuwd hoe deze het doet tov mijn al niet misselijk presterende Bluesound Node met MagnaHifi I2S upgrade ::)

Offline AudioEnZo

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Re: Shootout Sonos, Magna-Sonos(+Ultimo), G-Sonos en Bluesound Node
« Reply #901 on: November 22, 2016, 12:33:58 »
Ik draai nu alweer een tijdje met de Mano en ook van dit apparaat weet ik zeker dar die je gaat bevallen ;)

Offline holco

Re: Shootout Sonos, Magna-Sonos(+Ultimo), G-Sonos en Bluesound Node
« Reply #902 on: November 22, 2016, 12:54:35 »
Ben ook bang dat hij goed gaat bevallen ;)

Wat mij nog duidelijk moet worden hoe het een en ander integreert qua bediening, voor mij ook een belangrijk punt en de Node bevalt op dat vlak erg goed, we gaan het zien.

Offline AudioEnZo

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Re: Shootout Sonos, Magna-Sonos(+Ultimo), G-Sonos en Bluesound Node
« Reply #903 on: November 22, 2016, 13:08:28 »
Ik heb Logitech Media Server (LMS) op mijn  NAS draaien en piCoreplayer op de Mano,  vanaf de tablet bedien ik de boel met Orange Squeeze, werkt werkelijk vlekkeloos.

Offline holco

Re: Shootout Sonos, Magna-Sonos(+Ultimo), G-Sonos en Bluesound Node
« Reply #904 on: November 22, 2016, 17:17:00 »
Tegen die tijd maar ff proberen dan  ;D

Offline steklo

Re: Shootout Sonos, Magna-Sonos(+Ultimo), G-Sonos en Bluesound Node
« Reply #905 on: January 25, 2017, 21:46:24 »
Hello,

I'm very interested in an upgraded Sonos Connect. As far as I understand, the modifications done by Dr. Gert Volk and Magna Hifi are quite comparable except for the PSU: Gert leaves it untouched whereas Jos improves and shields the internal SMPS. Maybe that explains why most or even all here in that long thread preferred the Ultimo over G-Sonos. Somewhere in the middle of this thread there was some talk about using an external linear PSU and retiring the internal SMPS. Has anyone of you has tried that meanwhile?
I asked Jos about that and told me he tried and didn't find anything to be gained with a linear PSU compared to his Ultimo's improved SMPS. What's your opinion or experience about that?

All the best
Stefan


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Re: Shootout Sonos, Magna-Sonos(+Ultimo), G-Sonos en Bluesound Node
« Reply #906 on: January 25, 2017, 22:46:01 »
Hello Stefan.

I have no experience with a Magna Sonos, but reading your post IMHO it's a bit odd leaving the SMPS untouched. This is a weak spot in the Sonos to start with and in general most of the switching power supplies create noise.

Jos has done the right job and i can understand that there is no benefit using an external linear PSU. He solved the problems inside the Sonos already that makes sense. You can't solve an inside problem with an external power supply. The sound might get better but the linear power supply doesn't know whats going on inside the unit.

I am not an expert myself but i am working with a German company who are experts in modifications. And i hear these things very often.


Hello,

I'm very interested in an upgraded Sonos Connect. As far as I understand, the modifications done by Dr. Gert Volk and Magna Hifi are quite comparable except for the PSU: Gert leaves it untouched whereas Jos improves and shields the internal SMPS. Maybe that explains why most or even all here in that long thread preferred the Ultimo over G-Sonos. Somewhere in the middle of this thread there was some talk about using an external linear PSU and retiring the internal SMPS. Has anyone of you has tried that meanwhile?
I asked Jos about that and told me he tried and didn't find anything to be gained with a linear PSU compared to his Ultimo's improved SMPS. What's your opinion or experience about that?

All the best
Stefan


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Offline steklo

Re: Shootout Sonos, Magna-Sonos(+Ultimo), G-Sonos en Bluesound Node
« Reply #907 on: January 26, 2017, 10:08:00 »
Hello vik,

odd or not – I think Gert's G-Sonos was and is a quite successful approach to improve upon the standard Sonos Connect. I even more appreciate that he published very detailed what he does and why he does it. So everything is very transparent to every customer. Jos took things even a bit further by additionally addressing some problems of the internal SMPS – and succeeded in so far as his unit has been reported here to be superior to Gert's. Both approaches solved a lot of problems inside the Sonos.

My suggestion did not mean to take a standard Connect and use that with an external LPSU and ask if that would be better – I would take a G-Sonos (or a Magna Sonos Ultimo) – anyway in both cases internal problems improved – and bypass the internal SMPS with an external high quality LPS. The question is if I could expect even better sound quality with that approach compared to Jos' Sonos Connect Ultimo as is with its improved internal SMPS.
The external solution would mean to remove a source of serious RFI/EMS with bad influence into the digital section out of the Sonos and with the right choice of a good LPSU the voltage provided should be even better.

Opinions?

As for CineMike's modifications: As far as I understand they put their efforts only into the improvement of the SMPS? No better clocks or anything else Gert and Jos have proven to be important?

All the best
Stefan

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Re: Shootout Sonos, Magna-Sonos(+Ultimo), G-Sonos en Bluesound Node
« Reply #908 on: January 27, 2017, 09:21:52 »
Hi Stefan,

It seems that they all have a different approach. I think testing would be the only option (external power supply)

At this point this is where my knowledge stops and I need to leave it up to the experts like Jos, Gert Volk and CineMike.

From what I have heard the original clock is right in the magnetic field of the power supply, so CM stabilises the parts around the clock and leaving it original. He works on the power supply and a few minor changes in the SMD parts.


Hello vik,

odd or not – I think Gert's G-Sonos was and is a quite successful approach to improve upon the standard Sonos Connect. I even more appreciate that he published very detailed what he does and why he does it. So everything is very transparent to every customer. Jos took things even a bit further by additionally addressing some problems of the internal SMPS – and succeeded in so far as his unit has been reported here to be superior to Gert's. Both approaches solved a lot of problems inside the Sonos.

My suggestion did not mean to take a standard Connect and use that with an external LPSU and ask if that would be better – I would take a G-Sonos (or a Magna Sonos Ultimo) – anyway in both cases internal problems improved – and bypass the internal SMPS with an external high quality LPS. The question is if I could expect even better sound quality with that approach compared to Jos' Sonos Connect Ultimo as is with its improved internal SMPS.
The external solution would mean to remove a source of serious RFI/EMS with bad influence into the digital section out of the Sonos and with the right choice of a good LPSU the voltage provided should be even better.


Opinions?

As for CineMike's modifications: As far as I understand they put their efforts only into the improvement of the SMPS? No better clocks or anything else Gert and Jos have proven to be important?

All the best
Stefan


Mobiel: +31626102562 /WhatsApp
https://www.facebook.com/CineMikeBenelux

Offline StereoMike

Re: Shootout Sonos, Magna-Sonos(+Ultimo), G-Sonos en Bluesound Node
« Reply #909 on: January 28, 2017, 09:39:46 »
Hi Stefan,

It seems that they all have a different approach. I think testing would be the only option (external power supply)

At this point this is where my knowledge stops and I need to leave it up to the experts like Jos, Gert Volk and CineMike.

From what I have heard the original clock is right in the magnetic field of the power supply, so CM stabilises the parts around the clock and leaving it original. He works on the power supply and a few minor changes in the SMD parts.
The sound quality improvement with another (very expensive 5ppb clock) is not as huge as from pushing the RF noise floor down with a better power supply, but it brings a last bit of purity and coherence to the sound.
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Re: Shootout Sonos, Magna-Sonos(+Ultimo), G-Sonos en Bluesound Node
« Reply #910 on: January 30, 2017, 11:57:40 »
Heeft het zin om een gemodificeerde Sonos Connect te nemen als ik deze direct aansluit op mijn Arcam AVR600, dus de interne dac van de Arcam gebruik? Of kan je dan net zo goed een standaard Connect nemen?

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Re: Shootout Sonos, Magna-Sonos(+Ultimo), G-Sonos en Bluesound Node
« Reply #911 on: January 30, 2017, 13:01:43 »
Ik spreek enkel over de Sonos die wij kunnen leveren, maar ga er vanuit dat dat ook geldt voor de Magna. Ja dat heeft juist zin om een gemodificeerde aan te sluiten op je Arcam.

Heeft het zin om een gemodificeerde Sonos Connect te nemen als ik deze direct aansluit op mijn Arcam AVR600, dus de interne dac van de Arcam gebruik? Of kan je dan net zo goed een standaard Connect nemen?


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Offline Charlemagne

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Re: Shootout Sonos, Magna-Sonos(+Ultimo), G-Sonos en Bluesound Node
« Reply #912 on: January 30, 2017, 17:02:58 »
Een gemodificeerde Sonos Connect neem je juist om hem digitaal op een betere DAC aan te sluiten. Een externe DAC is ,vrijwel altijd beter dan de ingebouwde DAC van de Connect zelf. In de bovenstaande shootout is duidelijk gebleken dat de gemodificeerde apparaten veel beter klinken dan de standaard Connect. ChM
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Offline Kingpin

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Re: Shootout Sonos, Magna-Sonos(+Ultimo), G-Sonos en Bluesound Node
« Reply #913 on: February 11, 2017, 14:23:57 »
You can't solve an inside problem with an external power supply.
The sound might get better but the linear power supply doesn't know whats going on inside the unit.
So how does the smps knows?

I think, if you do all the upgrades to improve sound quality, i would start to get rid of the smps and use a very good linear power supply to start with.
Even if the smps is very good you ended up with a higher ripple and noisefloor then the LPS does, not to mention the emi/rfi part (that would be a whole other discussion).
Last monday i did EMC measurements at Thales and even my electronics did a good job the SMPS created the most emissions (but lower then required) ;)
A good designed LPS will cost you more then the whole Sonos (and a lot more space).

My 2 cents...
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