CiteerUnfortunately there is not a standard yet so we could easaly interchange devices from different brands. That would make live simpler, and cheaper..
Jaco

Denon will be using an RJ45 gigabit ethernet style interconnect supporting upto 1.2 Gbps over an STP cable.

See the upgrade board for their AV1SE specs here.

The pioneer is not making PCM of the DSD signal. It has inputs real DSD data, and makes than analogue.

I am currently looking into the possibility to make 3 SPDIF outputs on the 747 once my meridian is upgraded to accept that. That way i could listen to 6 channel 96/24 digital.
The SACD playback has to be digitized again to PCM in my meridian, as they already claimed they would not support SACD. (If you input it analogue it does work with bass management etc)


Unfortunately there is not a standard yet so we could easaly interchange devices from different brands. That would make live simpler, and cheaper..
Jaco

CiteerThe 747 uses a DAC that accepts PCM and DSD. It has seperate lines for both bitstreams.

Jaco

It would be nice to have these kind of DACs in the next generation pre/pro's like the upcoming Tag Mc Laren av192r.

Chances are high that we will see 192Khz/24bit DAC's instead with all processing done on a DSD->PCM converted bitstream, making the whole point of 1 bit DSD useless.

The interlinks Frank describe will probably be of a proprietary kind : Tag wants to use DVI, Onkyo/Integra firewire, Meridian multiple SP/DIF and Denon and Sharp possible another transport.

So the question remains : do we buy a player with analog 5.1 output with proper bass and time management (most likely these days if we want to adopt the format now), do we stick with a proprietary format (next months) or do we just wait until they (the industry) have finally recovered from all the paranoia caused by DeCSS ?

This is basically the same discussion as the DVD writable format wars.

A lot of my audiophile colleagues have now been waiting for 3 years to see this kind of interlink, but we're still not yet there.

The 747 uses a DAC that accepts PCM and DSD. It has seperate lines for both bitstreams.

Jaco

Indeed, or you mod your player to have a 3x Spdif output or Firewire. However your pre-amp also must have that input.

Denon and Meridian are working on this sort of connections, so let's hope it will also work for other brands.

Greetings,
Frank

CiteerThe wait is for other combi players.

Greetings,
Frank

New players are the first step to have some competition, the next step is to have a industry standard for digital SACD/DVD-A audio transport.

In most contemporary designs we will see analog outputs for the high-res formats for a long time and SP/DIF based output for PCM/AC3/DTS. Processing and DACS are present in both player and pre/pro as a result.

I envision a future were one could buy a high-end universal transport (something like a stripped Pioneer 747), which is connected to the pre/pro digitally where all format decoding/bass managment/time alignment/DA/volume control takes place.

This would require :

- PCM/DSD hybrid DACS or both (already on the market)

- DSD processing routines for bass management and time alignment. As DSD is serial, time alignment would work by just shifting the DSD stream with a delay, bass management would be very tricky.

- standardisation for DSD/PCM high-speed link instead of various companies choosing the proprietary route

In the meantime, the only solution to get one of the new super formats will be 5.1 analog based

The new Sony 900 can be modded, the Philips not as far as I know because they use an all-in-one chipset.

The 747 performed audio-wise with CD's good in my setup, it outperformed the 939 by a margin. Although on some tracks I liked the Denon 1600 (heavely modded) more on other tracks.

The upsampling does not work on digital as far as I know, my pre-amp shows the input frequenty (if other than 48 or 44.1) and it did not show anything, so I guess it only works on analoque.

The wait is for other combi players.

Greetings,
Frank

CiteerWell ok,

But look at what you get, it's the first player with SACD & DVD-A in one. And it also upsamples normal CD's.

It's a "high-end" player, and you pay for that.
It's no slough in performance anyway  .

MvrGr.
Frank

I have awaited this player for a long time, but I found one contra-indication on avsforum.com regarding the audio portion of this player.

While it is very nice to have an all-in-one box with PSM1 for a fair price, German magazine 'Audio' claims the audio capabilities to be average and nowhere near dedicated DVD-A or SACD players :

"For SACD/DVD-A playback it trailed behind such players as Philips SACD1000, Sony SCD-555ES, Sony SCD-XB940QS, Technics DVD-A10, Panasonic DVD-RA71, Sony SCD-XE670."

The audio magazines agree though that the video qualities are very very good, so this will make a good impression with the PSM1. For videophiles who also want the latest formats this could be the solution. For audiophiles like me I'm not sure yet.

My trust in the HTPC has increased tremendously since I use a Radeon 7500/M-audio 24/96 on W2K SP2 which is a super stable combination and never left me with a feeling like : which I had a standalone player just to avoid blue screens. I admit not everyone like the HTPC, some even are scared by it.

Frank : do you know if the upsampling feature is also sent to the SP/DIF ? It would be nice to output CD as 24/88.2, which is the currently the best format on 24/96 capable DACS which my Tag McLaren av32r processor support.

I never thought I would start using my HTPC as upsampler : the m-audio audiophile 24/96 supports upsampling and I'm now sending CD audio via SP/DIF at a 88.2 Khz rate.

The difference is not subtle and very obvious, even to the unexperienced listeners It would be nice to have such functionality in the Pioneer 747.

PS : do you know if the Philips SACD-1000 can be modded with a PSM1 ? This player makes a very decent SACD performance for the money.

And it works OK.
I just bought a multi channel SACD, but unfortunately i can only liten to it in 2 channel mode and digitized by my pre-amp. But i can t least check how the 747 handles the disc.

Till now i am satisfied with the player. I am buzzy setting the CRT projector up again with new memory's for the changed scanning rate. What i have seen till now the picture is quite good. The sound of the player is also very good (DVD DD and DTS)

Jaco

Some nice 747 pictures:

http://www.smr-group.co.uk/components/pioneer_dv-747a.html


Cheers,
Rob

What is wrong with the price ?
The basic price of the 747 is 1500 Euro. The cheapest combo player (chinese) was priced around 1200 Euro. I feel more save with the pioneer for the extra 300 Euro.
A stand alone DVD-A and SACD player will cost near the same. If you go that way, you need multiple 6 channel inputs which not much players have.

I do understand this is not a player for everyone at this price level. I you can sit it out for a half year or year, the combo players will get cheaper, as this pioneer forces every brand to offer a combo player if they want to stay in the market.

Jaco

Well ok,

But look at what you get, it's the first player with SACD & DVD-A in one. And it also upsamples normal CD's.

It's a "high-end" player, and you pay for that.
It's no slough in performance anyway  .

MvrGr.
Frank

CiteerPrice for the first models will be :
€ 2310,00 including RCE free & PSM-1.

Choke , cough ......    

Pricy but nice.

Rob

According to very good sources the quality must be the best at this moment. This weekend we will see.

Price for the first models will be :
€ 2310,00 including RCE free & PSM-1.

Greetings,
J.A.F. Doorhof
ITC HT.

I will find out soon what the quality is, as i ordered one.

Lets hope the PSM-1 can be built in within the next week or so.

Jaco

We will try to make a powerbuy with Pioneer, so if you are intrested please let me know at [email protected]

Greetings,
J.A.F. Doorhof
ITC HT

Great! This going to be a very interesting player... PSM-1 with DVD-Audio and SACD! A first!

The new Pioneer 747 is COMPATIBLE with the PSM-1.

Expect same results as the 939 and 737.
The mod is fairly difficult (small points) but should be no problem (same as 939/737).

Greetings,
J.A.F. Doorhof
ITC HT