Audiolab komt binnenkort uit met een nieuwe serie in mijn ogen zeer aantrekkelijke CD spelers en DAC's. Audiolab is het merk uit de UK, wat in de jaren 90 door TAG McLaren overgenomen was, en nu onderdeel van de Chinese IAG (international Audio Group) is.
Deze nieuwe serie CD spelers en DAC's is ontworpen door John Westlake, oa bekend van de Pink Triangle DaCapo, een van de beste DAC's uit de jaren 90, en de originele Cambridge DacMagic
8200CDDe CD speler met DAC - UK prijs 700 pond
(http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/images/uploads/big/AL8200CD.jpg)
(http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/images/uploads/AL8200CDB.jpg)
QuoteThe Audiolab 8200CD is a fully-featured integrated DAC and CD transport of advanced specification, and impeccable performance. Exhibiting a number of digital inputs including USB, coax, and optical, the 8200CD is the most flexible integrated DAC / CD on the market.
The designers at Audiolab have focused on compatibility with the USB capable of interfacing with a number of media players including WMP, iTunes, and iRiver. Additionally it is capable of playing full HD audio sources up to 24Bit 96kHz through the asynchronous USB design.
Designed around the advanced ESS Sabre32 9018 DAC, the 8200CD delivers optimal sonic performance from digital sources. The ESS DAC in conjunction with Audiolab's proprietary discrete master clock circuit manages to achieve 100% jitter attenuation within the digital domain. This is expressed through music playback with unrivaled detail and timing.
Comprised of over 1700 components using precision SMT manufacturing on a 4 layer PCB, the Audiolab 8200CD is the most advanced electronic design in Audiolab's long history.
The 8200CD features an array of digital outputs and digital inputs (allowing you to use its advanced DAC with other digital sources). In fact, for a CD player at this level, the number of inputs/outputs available including balanced output is impressive. As Audiolab's advertising campaign said, just "check out that rear!"
Features
- Exceptional connectivity, including a USB port and XLR outputs
- USB port can be used to enhance the quality of digital audio playback from a PC, Mac etc.
- Any PC/Mac media player (iTunes etc.) can be controlled via the Audiolabʼs remote handset
- USB port also allows the player to be upgraded via firmware updates in the future
- Four selectable digital filters enable the user to tailor the sound to his/her own taste
- Ultra-high-quality 32-bit DAC from ESS Technology
- Proprietary, discrete master clock ensures ultra-low jitter
- Balanced, discrete, Class A output stages maximise sound quality
(http://forum.moorgateacoustics.co.uk/download/file.php?id=282&mode=view)
(http://forum.moorgateacoustics.co.uk/download/file.php?id=281&mode=view)
8200CDQDe CD speler met DAC en analoge voorversterker - UK prijs 900 pond
De main board
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p293/muz640/CDQsmall.jpg)
Quote8200CDQ Additional Features
The 8200CDQ sports the same specifications as the 8200CD with the addition of a complete digital/analogue preamplifier. Existing digital inputs and outputs are joined by three line-level analogue inputs, providing source selection and volume control in the analogue domain. The preamplifier section is fully balanced and all analogue input signals are converted to balanced form, helping to reduce distortion and noise. Class A gain structures are present throughout, and users may choose between preamplification in the analogue or digital domain in respect of the digital inputs.
In addition, the 8200CDQ is one of the few high quality CD players to feature a direct-coupled, discrete, Class A headphone amplifier, accessible via a socket on the front panel.
Features
- Exceptional connectivity, including a USB port and XLR outputs
- USB port can be used to enhance the quality of digital audio playback from a PC, Mac etc.
- Any PC/Mac media player (iTunes etc.) can be controlled via the Audiolabʼs remote handset
- USB port also allows the player to be upgraded via firmware updates in the future
- Four selectable digital filters enable the user to tailor the sound to his/her own taste
- Ultra-high-quality 32-bit DAC from ESS Technology
- Proprietary, discrete master clock ensures ultra-low jitter
- Balanced, discrete, Class A output stages maximise sound quality
- Pre amplifier with 3 line-level inputs / source selection / volume control
- Class A headphone amplifier included
De 8200CD (boven) en 8200CDQ (onder)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p293/muz640/audiolab-4.jpg)
8200DQDe DAC en analoge voorversterker - verwachtte prijs ca 500 UKP
(http://i56.tinypic.com/28ku4qr.jpg)
(foto van pre-productie model)
In principe een 8200CDQ zonder CD speler.
Nog wat verschillen volgens John:
QuoteThe DQ & CDQ should have identical audio performance - so the cheapest route would be to use the DQ with your CD player.
Being released later, I've had a chance to refine the CDQ and DQ performance over the CD. The DQ also allows you to select various Modulator modes (SDM Mode), and has a Balance control should anyone need it,
As with the selectable Digital filter modes, the worst measuring SDM modes sound the best to me... But then it depends what you measure, and how this translates to audio performance...
Also something to consider – if you go with a unit that also includes a preamplifier section (which you might not currently need) such as the DQ or CDQ, then at least you have a future upgrade path. Or as I've recently done on the 8000S in my Lab, allowing you to bypass your Integrated Amps preamplifier section (if it allows)... with the 8000S at least, this resulted in a huge quality improvement.
8200MDACEen DAC zonder analoge ingangen - verwachtte prijs onder 400 UKP
Volgens de ontwerper:
QuoteHonestly, I don't believe there will be much difference in sound quality between MDAC and CDQ / DQ.
MDAC "Lite" is a DAC / Digital Preamplifier - no Analogue inputs. While it's enclosed in a small format case, while the DQ is "Full Size". The MDAC has a very nice "large" full graphics OLED display in place of the lets just say to be kind "a more conventional" 20x2 Line character display on the CD/CDQ/DQ.
Originally, the CD / CDQ & DQ where all to have the same audio performance (once we had been forced into using the ESS9018 across the range due to the ESS9008 being "unusable" in our application). However I found a way to improve the CDQ / DQ audio performance - unfortunately too late for the 8200CD which has already been reviewed and shipped - still from a marketing perspective its better that the more expensive units also have better audio performance. The yet to be completed MDAC will also include the performance update...
As the USB is operated in Async mode, then USB replay has the advantage over non clock-locked SPDIF sources - however the MDAC also includes an external Clock-Lock loop, allowing clock locking with a range of older CD transports and future digital sources in the pipeline. However in combination with the ESS patented advance Jitter Attenuation and some unique circuit implementation, there's VERY little difference with decent Low Jitter source between internal and external clocked devices, however items like Apple's Airport express have surprisingly high Jitter levels...
I believe the MDAC will be the biggest seller (as it will also be the cheapest – and with its beautiful OLED display) – but the whole range is very good, it just depends on your needs, such the units size? Do you need CD transport section? Line Level Analogue inputs? Headphoone Jack? Etc... If you're looking at Audiolab, then I would chose between CDQ/ DQ or MDAC...
After re-reading my post, I didn't want anyone to think there's anything wrong with the 8200CD – it really is a "Performance Game Changer", however being a designer I'm always finding methods to improve the performance of my (our) designs – the CDQ / DQ being released later have be able to benefit from these extra tweaks...
Yes, MDAC has Digital Pre & Class A Headphone Amp. CES launch - so January.
As we are still some months away from launching the MDAC I should keep it under wraps for a little while longer - however I still owe you some Pics. of the DQ - I will post tomorrow (there will be some small changes on production units - like the addition of a pair of 12V trigger outputs, and a few detailed button key changes).
Nog wat commentaren van de ontwerper John Westlake.
QuoteI'm glad to see interest, just some quick comments about our design (for those of you who are not aware, The unit's internals and software have been conceived and designed by Dominik Peklo and myself, and are based upon a design which was originally going to be lunched under own brand).
1. The 8200CD/CDQ/DQ designs have something like 250,000uF of internal electrolytic capacitors distributed across the PCB - these capacitors need time to run-in from new. With a brand new unit, it takes at least 6 hours before the unit start to open up, loose the "cold sound". Once the initial "run-in" is completed (a week or so), the units require about half and hour to "Warm up" fully from power-up.
I believe the run-in period is more pronounced with these designs due to the huge amount of total capacitance (Power amplifiers commonly have only 10,000uF to 20,00uF – 10 times less), and also due to the use of a large number of High-Quality Organic capacitors situated around the critical Clock and DAC sections - these seem to require more time to "re-form"
2. Please forget the selling price – these are VERY high quality designs. During my recent travels visiting UK reviewers with the CDQ, I had a chance to compare against a 20K GBP DAC + Transport, lets just say the conversation went like this:-
"OK, (on 5th attempt), let's give this DAC (the 20K DAC + Transport) one more chance to redeem itself", 15 to 20 seconds into the track.... "Well no it has not.... What's the retail price of this unit going to be??" (Asking about the CDQ selling price).
Also: - "I could never believe Digital can sound so different" – I took that as a complement!
The problem is to find partnering Amplifiers / Speakers that will do the 8200CD/CDQ/DQ justice at ANYWHERE near the price (Really don't ask me....) I well (maybe) be designing a new amplifier for AudioLab to match – but this is still 6 to 9 months away...
3. Do try the different filter digital filter settings – without any doubts, my favourite filter is "Optimal Transient" – for reference I prefer "Analogue sound" such as turntables etc.... Also, if using the CDQ or DQ directly with power amps, then I also prefer using the "Digital Pre-Amplifier" mode, (meaning the Volume Control is performed in the Digital Domain).
Although the vast majority who have listened preferred the "Optimal Transient" Filter, others strongly preferred "Optimal Spectrum" mode and that's why we designed it to be directly selectable via the Remote Handset... (Actually my DEAREST wife complained while using our Peachtree Audio designs, that she hated having to get up and change the rear panel mounted Digital Filter switch for different recordings)...
4. Both Dominik and myself 100% agree that the "Central full size window" of AudioLab of old looks a LOT better – in fact our early prototypes DID have the full size window!!!, but the "All Wise" marketing Dept. changed the design to what you see today... needless to say, it can be very hard working here...
QuoteNo the PSU is linear – 36 regulated PSU rails in the CD with 38 regulated PSU rails in CDQ.
The CD,CDQ, DQ & MDAC all use the ESS9018, originally in was planned to use the ESS9008 for the CD, but this IC has so many internal design issues, that simply we could not use it. Late in the day we where forced into using the ESS9018 across the range. Dominik and myself worked with ESS to helped identify and resolve issues with ESS's first generation DAC'S (9006 & 9008) – resulting in the much improved (and now usable) 9016, 9018. Still the ESS DAC range is very hard to work with, with many "work arounds" required to gain stable performance... ESS support is VERY weak – thankfully we could work directly with Dustin Foreman the IC's designer.
In my humblest opinion, the ESS DAC's are really the very best "Off the Shelf" DAC chips you can buy – so it has been worth the extended effort in the long run... but what a bloody headache its been....
The ESS DAC is used in Balanced Voltage mode, so the analog stage is truly active balanced (using discrete Class A FET input based class A stages – transformers are not used). During the development cycle I originally used bipolar (transistor) based input stages, these resulted in a 134dB Dynamic range (Awtd), but sounded below par (crap) – well in fact it sounded like Audiolab of old, clinical, hard, cold, uninvolving... so I quickly changed to FET inputs pairs (and other tweaks) , reducing the dynamic range to 117dB due to the FET's more nosey performance – but thankfully the audio quality approached my target... Analogue!
Using the ESS we are able to design our own filter coefficients – no need for external DSP, the ESS has all the internal DSP processing required – just requires a competent software guy and the use of MATLAB...
The DQ / CDQ analogue input stage comprises of Gold Relay switch input selection, then converted to a Balanced signal path (all ClassA biased stages are used though out the signal path) – to a Balanced integrated passive switched attenuator for each channel (for Volume control) – then to discrete balanced FET input Hi-Current class A output buffer.
When using the DAC section of the DQ / CDQ the Gain control can be performed in the Digital domain (User selectable Analogue or Digital Pre-Amplifier), so the internal "Pre Amplifier stage" can be bypassed (Via High quality Gold Relays) for the shortest signal path. No matter how good or bad a Pre-Amplifier is, at can never be totally 100% transparent – so better to do without if possible. To this end, internally the DAC output stage incorporates a FET input based discrete High Current Class A output stage)... The simpler the signal path the better... Bring back the "Needle and Horn" I say...
When using the CDQ in "Digital Pre-Amplifier Mode", the unit's basically an 8200CD but with digital volume control. Dominik and I wanted to add the "Volume control" function to the 8200CD – but guess what the marketing Dept. "STRONGLY" refused... would have only cost 2 extra buttons on front panel – less then US$0.5... wonder why...
Talking about the history of the digital input support of the 8200CD, well originally there was very firm rejection of adding USB and digital inputs on a "New" CD player from marketing Dept, and CDQ / DQ was not too exist (in fact CDQ was actually panned – DQ was not even on the table) - with the famous quote that I will never forget "We are not a DAC company"... I pushed my own agenda, designed the products behind the scene, and thanks to the publics postings and reception to the products, the Marketing Dept. has "come around" to releasing the CDQ and now DQ....
But remember we are not a DAC company – well thankfully CD has such a bright future... Please let me find a very hard brick wall so I can bash my own head against it... ouch... ouch... ouch... Oh it really hurts... ouch... hey that's starting to feel good.... Yes - I think I'm going to work in China...
When we started development of this DAC (recall it was originally designed for our own brand), USB2.0 audio (for 24/192) was not yet conceived – and even to this day (in the mainstream OS systems) only Apple supports 192/24 over USB native - without the need for external software Drivers. As a small Audio based company we could not attain to support software drivers for Windows PC's and all the instabilities associated with the computers, so we decided only to support 24/96KHz over USB – so alas, USB 24/96KHz is a legacy from the roots of the design.
Even today, there is still not a stable source for USB 24/192 over USB – until Microsoft build in native driverless support of HiRes USB into Windows, we do not have the resources to support customers PC installation issues – how many times has the installation process of your new product gone smoothly under Windows???
Thankfully, USB 24/96 is supported driverless on all major operating systems.
Also, the Digital Optical inputs are only "RATED" to support upto 24/96KHz - although they "May" work with higher input rates, depending on the quality of the Transmitting source.
QuoteWith any system Digital or analogue, there's an ultimate limit in resolution – with Digital it's related to the number of Bits, with Analogue it's the SNR (Signal to Noise Ratio).
As you adjust the gain control on an analogue system, you ultimately run into lowering the signal into the noise floor. Very few analogue systems even come close to 16Bits Dynamic range (96dB) at normal listening output power levels.
Lets say your replying a 16 Bit audio source (CD), that's 96dB Dynamic range – your going to need an amplifier with greater then 96dB Dynamic range to reproduce the input source without losing resolution – reducing the signal amplitude (lowering the volume control) reduces the signal level fed into an amplifier with its fixed input noise level, the signal is now partially "Buried" within the limitations of the amplifiers SNR – resulting in loss of resolution.
Very much the same situation exists with a Digital Gain control, reproducing a 16 Bit audio source with a system capable of greater then 32 Bits processing, only moves your "16 Bits" of data up and down your "32 Bit range" – but ultimately you well just encounter the "noise" limitation of analogue path during and after the D/A conversion process. It's easy to be looking at signals -200dB down on a FFT in the digital domain, but at the very least thermal noise will ultimately limit the resolution in our analogue world... just as with any analogue preamplifier!
Unfortunately, things are not altogether so simple, the human brain can "hear" into the noise floor, and the "noise" spectrum also needs to be understood... where as digital systems have a fixed resolution "limit" in Bits, but it can also be "extended" by adding noise shaping and dithering to extend the "perceived resolution" of a digital source. It's hard to explain in simplistic terms without taking into consideration many other factors... (and many varying points of view).
I'd just like to add that not all implantations of Digital Gain control are done correctly - Digital Gain control without correct dithering can sound very very bad... internal Data path width's and rounding errors all need to be factored... It's all too easy to get Digital Gain control wrong, where as even budget "Volume Pots" don't sound too bad.
With DQ / CDQ Analogue or Digital Preamplifier mode can be user selected – for the record I prefer the sound of the Digital Preamplifier Mode – with its much simpler analog signal path – no matter how good a Preamplifier is, it can never be better then no Preamplifier
QuoteDuring the development of CDQ/DQ most "importance" was given to the "DAC" mode of operation. I truly cannot comment on how good the "Analogue side" of the Pre-Amplifier section is compared to competition, as I simply don't own a good Pre-amplifier. Sadly, I only own digital sources with 2Vrms outputs that can drive Amplifiers directly – so I use a simple Passive Pre Amplifier – just a volume potentiometer.
While I say most importance was given to the DAC section, it must be taken in the context that the DAC section is truly extremely over engineered.
The Analogue preamplifier section is operated in full Class A balanced operation throughout (once the SE inputs have been internally converted to Balanced signal lines), with gold plated relay switched input selection – a pair of fully balanced switch attenuators, and finally, pair's of Balanced FET input Class A Hi-Current Output buffers.
The CDQ / DQ allow the DAC's balanced signal to be routed to the Analogue Preamplifier section or direct output (for selectable Digital / Analogue Pre-Amplifier mode). While the Direct output mode (Digital Preamplifier) sounds ever so slightly better (firmer – tighter Bass), there's surprisingly little between them, suggesting that the internal analogue preamplifier can hold its own.
HOWEVER, when using external line level input sources, there's an extra circuit stage which converts the single-ended inputs to internal balanced operation. No circuit can be totally transparent (The DAC output signals are inherently balanced, so this extra circuit block is redundant and therefore bypassed), one would expect little degradation in audio quality from this circuit section – certainly when compared to the potential degradation caused by the switched attenuator and its surrounding circuits....
I can say it is better then a Mark Levinson Pre amplifier I tried, - but then I was surprised how bad the ML sounded - so I didn't consider this a worthwhile test, as I can only expect that other Pre-Amplifiers are better quality.
The CDQ / DQ "Preamplifier Section" is only compatible with line level inputs, so you will still need a quality phone stage.
Weet dat ik een beetje enthousiast overkom, maar dit is in mijn ogen een aantrekkelijke serie.
In mijn gebruik, gecombineerd HT en stereo, is er vrij weinig keuze in goede processors die alle features (HD-audio, HDMI switching, room correction etc) en goede stereo geluidskwaliteit hebben. Of je zit in de Onkyo's en Emotiva's die op het gebied van stereo niet de absolute top zijn, of je komt bij vrij prijzige units als Arcam en Anthem. En gezien de voortgang in ontwikkelingen op HT gebied (nieuwe HDMI specs, etc) ben ik niet zo happig om dat soort bedragen uit geven. Kijk maar wat goede legacy processors zoals TAG en Lexicon nu nog waard zijn markt....
Ben daarom aan het overwegen mijn stereo wat los te scheiden in mijn set, door een goede voorversterker met HT bypass, met daarnaast een goede DAC om de kwaliteit van de de Squeezebox (od andere audio streamer) wat te verbeteren. Het HT gedeelte kan ik dan oplossen met een Onkyo/Emotiva oid.
De 8200DQ (evt CDQ als ik een CD speler wil) is dus een ideale oplossing in dit scenario. In combinatie met de verwachtte zeer goede audio prestaties en aantrekkelijke prijs een super aanbieding!
Enige alternatieven die ik zo snel zie de Lyngdorf voorversterker, of een oude Mark Levinson 38/380 voorversterker die ook HT bypass heeft maar geen DAC.
Ook heb ik een klein beetje inbreng in het ontwerp kunnen hebben :smile:, John was actief op een engels forum en ik gaf aan dat de CDQ/DQ zeer aantrekkelijke apparaten zouden zijn, mits ze een HT bypass zouden hebben en een 12V DC uitgang als trigger voor een voorversterker. Die heeft ie dus maar meteen in het ontwerp aangepast....
Ziet er mooi uit, leuke tech. specs zo te zien. Ben zeer benieuwd hoe het klinkt.
Ziet er goed uit, altijd super als ontwerpers meepraten op 't Internet. PS Audio is daar ook zeer sterk in. :)
Ik zie wel twee minpunten aan deze ontwerpen:
1. Digitale inputs ondersteunen maximale Fs van 24/96kHz. Edit: wacht even hij heeft 't over de optical inputs als de coax inputs die beperking niet hebben is 't natuurlijk niet zo'n probleem.
QuoteAlso, the Digital Optical inputs are only "RATED" to support upto 24/96KHz - although they "May" work with higher input rates, depending on the quality of the Transmitting source.
2.
Quoteonly Apple supports 192/24 over USB native - without the need for external software Drivers. As a small Audio based company we could not attain to support software drivers for Windows PC's and all the instabilities associated with the computers, so we decided only to support 24/96KHz over USB – so alas, USB 24/96KHz is a legacy from the roots of the design.
Aangaande punt 2 begrijp ik 't standpunt over het niet willen/kunnen supporten van USB Audio drivers overigens wel maar er zijn toch ook alternatieven om bijvoorbeeld samen te werken met derde partijen die een dergelijke oplossing al bieden. Wavelength Audio bijvoorbeeld geeft ook licenties uit. Het zal de prijs wel doen stijgen maar eigenlijk koop je met 24/96 USB support iets dat (op dat gebied) nu al verouderd is.
Lijkt erop dat hoger dan 96 kHz wel mogelijk is via SPDIF:
QuoteUSB3 offers no advantage - however USB 2.0 would remove the current limit of 96 KHz 24Bits over the USB1.1 interface.
There are currently no plans to update the USB hardware to support greater then 96 KHz – atleast until the mainstream operating systems (Microsoft) offer "Plug And Play" driverless support. Currently only MAC OS natively supports higher data rates over USB.
There's also very little "mainstream" audio content available at anything higher then 96 KHz - I've only one DVD with 96KHz...
For higher data rates you can always use SPDIF over the Coax inputs.
Als nu de Squeezebox Touch ook 192 kHz gaat ondersteunen een leuke combinatie!
Hardware van de SB Touch zou het aan moeten kunnen, zou wat software mods gedaan worden, iemand had er al naar gegeken.
De review op whathifi al gelezen?
Als dit een sony cd-speler zou zijn zou ik het met een korreltje zout hebben genomen.
Maar deze auidolab komt er daar wel erg goed uit.
Ik ga zelf voor de dac+preamp.
http://www.whathifi.com/Review/Audiolab-8200CD/